Curse

Fawn Dul · May 09, 2006, 12:14 PM // 12:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matsumi

...If you heal any type of player too much, they start to think they can get away with more. But when the healing stops due to energy consumption, that's when they get mad, because you spoiled them before. If you don't spoil them to begin with, they start looking more at what they're doing, hopefully....

Now that is the best bit of advice I have seen yet!

Tried Healing Seed on some foolhardy assassins last night and it keeps both him and the tank up as well... Whoever suggested that kudos to you!

As for names for Assassins- I laughed at Squishy for so long this morning I nearly spewed my coffee! I'm thinkin' "Squishins" or "Assquish". I personally like "Assquish" the best, because you can say things like "Would you like to have an Assquish with that?" or "Once the Assquish is dead then the tank can go in" or "My, that Assquish makes a beautiful Minion" or "Hey look! The Assquish drew aggro again, silly rabbit!"

Kern Wolf · May 09, 2006, 12:56 PM // 12:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by MelechRic

I was doing Arborstone yesterday on my necro and I only ran into one assassin who was worth a damn. This guy was awesome and killed every caster (myself included) that he could get close to. Fortunately I was on my blood spiker so I made sure to nail him before he could get up close.

The guy could put mutliple conditions on you so fast it was amazing. Even w/ plague touch I was dead in around 5-7 seconds. Very nice and I sent him a PM telling him so. People like that should be encouraged to keep playing the Assassin class because ultimately they will be its ambassadors after all the hyperactive 12 year olds give up.

I don't play an assassin, but for the sake of the profession, I hope the person who DID play this assassin posts his build, and helps his fellow assassins out...

Snowman · May 09, 2006, 02:06 PM // 14:06

I think the OP is correct about one thing, people arnt using assasins correctly at all!

I must admit it has and still is taking me a while to get used to the class, there is definatly a mental learning curve, its very difficult to dettach yourself from the battle to look after yourself.

so many times I have been in a mission with one or two other assasins, they have each got 40% DP, and im still there with +5... DP is an absoloute killer and to be avoided at all costs.

The Monk would rather concentrate on healing others than having to spend energy on the foolish manouvers of assasins.. I find they dont mind dropping one or two heals on you, but the assasins should definatly get it into his head that they need to take plenty of protection!

Thats why I disagree with assasins taking multiple lead and off-hand attacks, they are at the sacrifice of your own protection.

TurinPT · May 09, 2006, 03:11 PM // 15:11

as a monk, ive met some deadly assassins in pvp, some can kill in 3-4 secs while interrupting and putting conditions like mad... no chance to defend myself. if I manage to put guardian on without being interrupted my health is already at 1/5 for wasting 1 second not running away....

BlueSummers · May 09, 2006, 03:14 PM // 15:14

Quick Reply
Personally, I was a healer for the duration of Prophecies, and it was pretty awesome. I prided myself on being the core of the group; keeping people alive and kicking.

When I got factions, I switched to Assasin and the tactics are quite different. You're right to say that people should get a different mentality when playing sins. I took A/Mo myself, because I'd like to be able to hold my own. I've become very fond of Protective Spirit since it affords Monks the luxury of 10 hits to kill me instead of four.

I would like to point out that I have energy issues as an assasin, like anyone else. But I try to mitigate that problem. There's no excuse not to use all your energy gathering skills intelligently. Golden Lotus tends to bring me right back to 2/3rds energy after I stack up my personal enchantments. Moreover, Critical eye and a good critical strike skill (9<) brings in a fairly dependable stream of mana (That is, 10% + 5% = 15% chance to get +3 energy per strike. This averages 45% chance to gain +1 energy per strike before other bonuses).

Just figured I'd throw in my two cents. I've got to go study regression, or I'll fail that final exam.

The Lich Ranger · May 09, 2006, 03:15 PM // 15:15

Assassins are 2 problems, if their ur ally....they die FAST!!

if there the enemy, they will mess you up

I have a lvl 20 monk and its hard to keep em alive!

i usually let em die

Deacon Roswell · May 09, 2006, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fawn Dul

This leads me to believe that there are a lot of people out there that are playing Assassins wrong. Assassins aren't tanks, they don't have tankish armor, they don't have tankish health, and they don't even look like tanks. They look like casters to me- or at most, rangers. And I don't see rangers running out front trying to get the first melee hit on mobs.

It's always the other guys fault isn't it? You're right, they don't have tankish armor but they DO have the same health. Instead of constantly whining like most monks have done in factions, why don't you try something different instead of the standard heal/protect build you used in prophecies??? Assassins deal out alot more damage than any warrior so they are very valuable to the party. To do this damage they DO need to be in close.
Assassins are very easy to keep alive. You monks just need to break out of your "cookie-cutter" heal/protect builds and learn to adapt to the new game/skills. Monks need to work with a ritualist to keep the deadly assassins alive. Just add a few spirit/weapon buffs (recuperation and weapon of warding to name just one of each) to the party build and see what happens. Of course this won't help if you have a suicidal assassin that never back's out but there are plenty who are playing it right.

Try new skills and adapt instead of spamming "Monk LFG. NO ASSASSINS" which should immediately be followed by "cuz I CAN'T ADAPT AND CAN'T BE AN EFFECTIVE MONK".

And no i'm not an assassin. i played that role for 1 weekend and did not like it. I play ritualist mostly and have no problems keeping assassins alive as long as any other profession.

baz777 · May 09, 2006, 04:08 PM // 16:08

My only experience with assassins thus far was on the quest ‘missing son’ on the first island whilst taking my ranger through, which had 2 of them on our team.

After dying repeatedly, fortunately i had the foresight to take Rebirth, they would just drop at the first hit.

Fortunately they both carried bows so I asked them to become honorary Rangers for the rest of the mission and in the end all worked out well.

I really will have to take my monk back over to HA to see for myself what an Assassin can really do.

Wicked Shadow · May 09, 2006, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Well so far I've played as both a monk and assassin in Cantha. Assassins definitely need a different strategy than warriors. You can't just run in (or worse, shadow step) to a monk or spellcaster in the group and expect to beat on it till it dies. You need to get in, strike, get out.
From the monk point of view this is a problem. Henchman assassins are downright terrible at it and I don't bother with them any more. Humans are generally a bit smarter as to when they're being targeted and I can generally manage to keep them alive. I suppose both classes really need to adapt strategies to be completely effective, though.

Tongloid Tarthwood · May 09, 2006, 04:43 PM // 16:43

I wrote a song for all you assasins out there. Sing to the tune of Hokey Cokey:

Tele in
Tele out
in
out
in
out
shake it all about.
You do the assasin cool dance and you turn around, that's what it's all about.
Woah, get the monk aggravated.
Woah, aggro everything the wammos missed
Woah, die 4 times for luck
Knees bent
Arms stretched
Die! Die! Die!

felinette · May 09, 2006, 04:53 PM // 16:53

lol. Love the song.

I think the predominant point being made is that there are more bad assassins out there than good ones right now, as people learn how to play the profession. So if you accept a sin into a group, you're more likely to get a dud than a competent sin. I've pugged quite a lot in Factions so far, and been out with a lot of sins (once, it was just me (mesmer), monk, and four sins). Most of the time the sins die repeatedly. We spend a lot of time rezzing sins. Occasionally, you get a sin who doesn't die at least four or five times during a mish (and, of course, as DP increases, they die quicker), but it's rare. It has nothing to do with the competence of the monk or rit or whatever, since nobody else in the group is dropping so frequently.

The rare time I monk, I carry more protection spells than usual and always cast them on the sins in the group. They don't help much when someone shadow steps right into the middle of an aggroed mob and stays there.

So yeah, there are good assassins out there right now, but getting a good one in your group is like winning the lottery. Possible, but not likely. This will change as people become more proficient playing them or the noobs play something new because sins are "too hard", but until then, I'll continue to get nervous when there's more than one sin in a group.

ETA: My Canthan monk henched the "An Unwelcome Guest" quest and took along the sin henchie. At one point, everyone wiped except me and the sin. Between us, we managed to take down a few mobs before I rezzed everyone else. So yes, you can keep a sin alive through multiple mobs...when they're the only other player!

Vahn Roi · May 09, 2006, 05:10 PM // 17:10

I don't mind working with experienced 'sins that know how to make good use of Shadow Arts skills like Way of Perfection, Shadow Refuge and Return. I hate the reckless ones that think the job of healing is on the Monks' shoulders entirally.

Monks are there for support, if your assassin build can't survive 20 seconds on the field without one, you fail as an assassin user.

Monk of The Light · May 09, 2006, 05:41 PM // 17:41

I don't find Assassins that hard to master, there are a lot of good healing spells (if you use them correctly) and as everything LORD DOBO said is so true. Assassins are support characters, they should be in the back and teleport in a mob, damage the casters and maybe even the tanks, and then teleport out. The only annoying thin about 'sins are the reputation, but I guess that soon enough ppl will have learned how to play them.

Ken Dei · May 10, 2006, 01:02 AM // 01:02

I agree with the fellow who stated that maybe people should look at their cuttie cutter builds before picking on Assassins.

Also, party make-up has a lot to do with it. I've seen plenty of parties where the only Melee were Assassins. So who holds Aggro if Assassins aren't supposed to.

There should always be a 1:1 or 1:2, Assassin:Warrior makeup for melee.

Most of the problem is again, Assassins rely on the team. So if the team doesn't know how to assist the Assassin, the Assassin will look bad. It's wammo syndrome all over again. So it's not fair to say everyone who dies alot on an Assassin is playing it wrong.

Klmpee · May 10, 2006, 01:54 AM // 01:54

i find them no problem. even if they run ahead. boon prots work wonders... then the healer can just come in and clean up and boom no dead ass's

Tristan Taylor · May 10, 2006, 02:18 AM // 02:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by felinette

Most of the time the sins die repeatedly. We spend a lot of time rezzing sins. Occasionally, you get a sin who doesn't die at least four or five times during a mish (and, of course, as DP increases, they die quicker), but it's rare. It has nothing to do with the competence of the monk or rit or whatever, since nobody else in the group is dropping so frequently.

While in most part it's true it's not the Monk's fault, I've seen a few people that decided they won't heal Assassins because "they're just going to die anyway", and "it takes too much energy I could on the others"<<<this comes in because they decided the Assn's will just die anyway. The reason, in those cases, that the others aren't falling so quick is because the Monks are healing them instead of the Assn's.

So then you have the non Monk's and Assn's of the party saying, "hmmm, look how fast the Assassin's are getting killed, I don't want any Assn's in my party", and putting the blame fully on the Assassin's and further ruining the rep of anyone playing the profession.

I also do see too many Assassin's thinking they can be War's. When I play mine I tag a healer with Recall, and when I see my health starting to fall, I pop away from the battle, take a moment to re-cast Recall, and regain energy, then run back to the battle, rinse and repeat. Also, that Recall can come in use if the Healer you tag is in danger, you can pop in and hold the enemy while they attempt an escape.

J snukka · May 10, 2006, 02:34 AM // 02:34

I'm goin to keep this simple. Stop hating on the profession. I remember in Guild Wars when noone cared about the Necros because they died too easily and not much with the Rangers since they were only good for pulling. Everyone wanted warriors, eles, monks, and maybe mesmers but not sure. Then all of a sudden boom, everyone is begging to have a necro in their build, rangers are great for spiking, trapping and whatever else they are good at(BP?).

Don't hate the profession hate the majority of stupid players not using the profession correctly. Give assassins a chance, if you don't, than how do you expect players to evolve with the class and learn to practice new builds. They won't be able to better themselves by going out and taking henchies.

What you say?? show some love monks

Kha · May 10, 2006, 02:39 AM // 02:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tristan Taylor

I also do see too many Assassin's thinking they can be War's. When I play mine I tag a healer with Recall, and when I see my health starting to fall, I pop away from the battle, take a moment to re-cast Recall, and regain energy, then run back to the battle, rinse and repeat. Also, that Recall can come in use if the Healer you tag is in danger, you can pop in and hold the enemy while they attempt an escape.

Very true. I beat the game with my assassin using this technique (I've also tried Return, Aura of Displacement, etc). As long as the assassin AND the monk know what they're doing, then it's no problem. They're very handy in groups. I never had a complaint against me playing my assassin, and for the most part the only times I died were when the warrior or monk would die.

As my monk, I've had little trouble with assassins. Most know not to run in and tank. It's just a few bad ones make EVERYONE think they all will try to be the new group warrior. I use Vigorous Spirit on them which helps tremendously. I still have more problems with the warriors aggroing EVERYTHING and not letting rangers pull than with assassins dying.

I also see a lot of monks having bad energy management problem. It's not always that the group is taking too much damage. It's that they are using the wrong skill combinations or casting them at the wrong time. So of course, because they don't know what they're doing to start with, they just find the scapegoat to blame it on. Enter asssassins.

But instead of just yelling at other players, people should try giving advice. If they don't take it or become an ass about it, then yell at them

Mister_Smiley · May 10, 2006, 02:42 AM // 02:42

If assassin's arn't played right, then you will die easly. You need to make sure you have a good setup on them or they won't work right. I beat the game with my assassin, doing most of the missions with just hench and my assassin. People need to learn that they arn't tanks, they don't do the damage that tanks do. The best is to have a group is 2 assassins, 3 at max. But i see that its best to use 2. Also my Assassin is a Assassin/Warrior and the combo works really well.

Artisan · May 10, 2006, 11:25 AM // 11:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by baz777

My only experience with assassins thus far was on the quest ‘missing son’ on the first island whilst taking my ranger through, which had 2 of them on our team.

After dying repeatedly, fortunately i had the foresight to take Rebirth, they would just drop at the first hit.

Fortunately they both carried bows so I asked them to become honorary Rangers for the rest of the mission and in the end all worked out well.

I really will have to take my monk back over to HA to see for myself what an Assassin can really do.

I did the missing son quest on my assassin with henchies, actually.

Anyway, it's kind of annoying to see how a pretty good percentage of players look down on you or treat you like a noob if you're an assassin.